Next Federal Election
Slackjawedyokel wrote:Fact-
The main motivation for mass immigration is to push down wages.
No one has ever imported as many immigrants as Albo.
Ergo : No one has ever done more to push down wages than this ALP government.
Yep Covid and closed borders never happened.
Oh wait… are you about to repeat that never- true, made up , fictional story of the post-covid “catch up “ for immigration ?
Cool….tell me how that works. Tell me who needed the “catch up” and why it was needed?
Who benefited? It obviously wasn’t Australians as the population was looking at a resurgence in living standards after the LNP mass immigration frenzy prior to covid was dead in the water.
So exactly what were we catching up on?
Hint: It’s impossible to answer that question without revealing that the pre-covid immigration scheme was a literal Ponzi that required an ever increasing population to function. And that Covid unwound the Ponzi and Australia was free from its yoke but the ALP purposely rebooted it with interest.
So go on….tell me about the covid catch up. Properly explain the necessity instead of just loudly repeating the phrase as though it’s not a lie.
Pop Down wrote:AM
How about Albo , just give us the 250 (ish) Power Bill Rebate , that was a promise and should not B that hard 4 him 2 keep .
.
You mean the $275 reduction promise in energy bills by 2025?
Or was there another one?
From last week.
"$275 Energy Price Promise - Officially Broken
The Albanese Labor Government has run out of excuses after officially breaking its election promise to reduce household energy bills by $275 following the release of draft regulated electricity prices today.
The draft Default Market Offer has confirmed that Labor has fallen short by up to $1,027 of its promised price reduction for everyday households, equivalent to a 37% increase since Labor came to power."
Continued here
https://www.miragenews.com/275-energy-price-promise-officially-broken-11...
Slackjawedyokel wrote:Oh wait… are you about to repeat that never- true, made up , fictional story of the post-covid “catch up “ for immigration ?
Cool….tell me how that works. Tell me who needed the “catch up” and why it was needed?
Who benefited? It obviously wasn’t Australians as the population was looking at a resurgence in living standards after the LNP mass immigration frenzy prior to covid was dead in the water.
So exactly what were we catching up on?
Hint: It’s impossible to answer that question without revealing that the pre-covid immigration scheme was a literal Ponzi that required an ever increasing population to function. And that Covid unwound the Ponzi and Australia was free from its yoke but the ALP purposely rebooted it with interest.
So go on….tell me about the covid catch up. Properly explain the necessity instead of just loudly repeating the phrase as though it’s not a lie.
So if it was a Ponzi scheme before Covid, how is it all Albo's fault in the last 2 years?
Not saying there is not any issues with immigration and a conversation is needed, but to blame it all on Albo is not correct in my view.
There will be issues if it is cut top much to service our aging population, what's your solution to that?
Yep I wish Australia was more like it was in my youth, early 20's. I left at the end of 99 and returned to live full time in 2014 and it had changed noticeably to me.
I blame Howard so I guess if you feel same way about Albo you cannot be reasoned with. Howard should be facing the court in the Hague and the structural deficit he left and the scandered mining boom which fed some of the issues we have now with housing, but I digress.
Anyway got to see Richard Clapton last week, older demographic than me but was a great show, if ya get a chance worth seeing on this tour.
Here's a video of an idealyic Australian time.
Anyone know the surfer in what looks like small Padang? Doris?
https://m.
&pp=ygUgcmljaGFyZCBjbGFwdG9uIGNhcHJpY29ybiBkYW5jZXI%3D Because the Ponzi scheme had been iced and Australia was given a dream opportunity to reinvent itself and return to seeing productivity gains that weren’t based on the sugar-hit economic/ societal/ environmental cancer that is excessive immigration.
It wouldn’t have even taken effort. Albo had to merely stand back and let the ship right itself. There wasn’t any political risk ….he could have blamed the LNP for setting up the fall and Covid for pushing us over the edge.
There is some that foolishly believe that the sunk cost fallacy doesn’t apply to macro economics and that, just like a chronic gambler who starts betting the mortgage repayment money hoping to win back the car they’ve lost in a bad bet, we should just double down the road to INFINITY population growth because it might be temporarily unpleasant to quit now even though the outcome from continuing is INFINITELY worse.
Rather than take a bit of economic medicine now, they’d rather their children and grandchildren be unable to ever afford a home or have security of employment or afford to raise a family or ever be anything but on a downward spiral of declining living standards.
Was the economic medicine even that bad? Well…no. Wages were rising. Rental prices were declining. House prices would have recommenced declines once the outrageous covid- cash inflation had found that demand for housing was declined with the death of the population pyramid scheme.
Instead….Global Albo decided to fuck over Australia and it’s people and instead pander to the demands of his corporate masters.
He sold us out.
The Katy Perry and Tay Tay tickets were part of his bribe to fuck us all over.
The ALP and the LNP hate you. You think you hate them enough, but you don’t. Not even close.
BTW ….epic song. Soothing. Evocative. Almost but not quite , too hippy dippy to love ….
Damn…you’ve derailed my rant train you bugger.
I was sort of forcing it anyway if I’m honest. It’s a stunning afternoon here after my old mum’s birthday party in the hinterland.
^^^
yep
was a golden opportunity to correct course...
squandered... same with the energy transition
another golden opportunity to give the public some control back and a transition they can actually believe in...
but totally squandered also
scarily... seemingly more for interests outside australis than within...
jimmy chalmers little neo-liberalism essay - that he copped so much flak for - wasn't worth the measely megabytes it was written on...
they're a fraud...
or at least albo is
worst labor pm ever
almost worst pm ever...
marginally better than morrison
and may turn out worse than abbott...
Just two questions for you SJY , if all immigration had been stopped after covid , who would be working in aged care ? What doctors would be in rural practices ?
Immigration doesn’t need to stop. It’s only the Ponzi scheme Mass immigration that benefits no one that’s in need of being stopped.
The historical average is about 75,000 per year. That’s plenty.
The only reason you think we need more is because you’ve been told the same lies and propaganda for twenty years that we will fall in a heap unless we grow at warp speed.
Here’s the thing mate ….there’s been over 8.2 million net immigrants since the year 2000. Mass immigration is not the solution to skill shortages. The skill shortages are caused by mass immigration.
Are you aware how much productivity, money and labour is tied up purely accomodating the influx of over 4 million people per decade?
Think of the extra roads, water, hospitals , doctors, energy, welfare from 8.2 million people in twenty five years.
It’s crazy. It’s crazy and ruinous.
Slackjawedyokel wrote:Immigration doesn’t need to stop. It’s only the Ponzi scheme Mass immigration that benefits no one that’s in need of being stopped.
The historical average is about 75,000 per year. That’s plenty.
The only reason you think we need more is because you’ve been told the same lies and propaganda for twenty years that we will fall in a heap unless we grow at warp speed.
Here’s the thing mate ….there’s been over 8.2 million net immigrants since the year 2000. Mass immigration is not the solution to skill shortages. The skill shortages are caused by mass immigration.
Are you aware how much productivity, money and labour is tied up purely accomodating the influx of over 4 million people per decade?
Think of the extra roads, water, hospitals , doctors, energy, welfare from 8.2 million people in twenty five years.
It’s crazy. It’s crazy and ruinous.
75000 of who exactly? What type of migrations would be in your number?
This needs to be read if you want to actually know what’s going on beyond the vacuous propaganda found in corporate media in Australia.
Take your time. Let it sink in and think how this is destroying the fundamentals of the Australian economy. Not just now but into the future. Your kid’s future.
Forget your ridiculous partisan politics. In its current iteration It’s a dead end. Unless there is reformation , if not abandonment, removal and recreation of the two parties , then we cannot vote our way out of this.
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2024/03/treasurer-chalmers-has-no-idea-...
75,000 of who?
Well not the low skilled workers and their parental reunification that currently makes up a huge percentage of the intake. Most international students aren’t contributing in any net fashion either during or after their education.
If only we had someone within federal Government who’s job scope covered this very issue….maybe even some kind of minister for immigration. Wouldn’t that be something if we had one of those who could sort out this shit show!
Unfortunately we’ve only got the gormless Giles filling the chair like a fart filling an elevator.
who really cares about the $275 energy bill reduction?
even if labor came through with it, the increases have been so outrageous I doubt anyone's vote would change for that pissy amount... it would be an insult...
same with the tax cut for low income workers, so pissy it amounts to nothing...
and now same with the minimum wage...
people are already so far in arrears in terms of real wages, I doubt any of it will grant labor much reprieve come election time...
labor cannot immigrant themselves out of this shitstorm they've created themselves...
and they connot NOT immigrant themselves out of it...
they're creating their own perfect storm
demand will only increase putting pressure on inflation
wage increases are already putting pressure on inflation, aged care wages, skills shortage wages, and now a minimum wage increase - that's not saying they're not warranted... it just is...
pressure from brissy stadiums, pressure from tassy stadium, all competing for builders, all to feed the shit storm...
wars increasing shipping costs
massive energy transition spending
(a transition calculated on lower interest rates... that some are saying is now no longer viable...)
inflation ain't going anywhere
I wouldn't be surprised if interest rates are rising this time next year to combat spiralling out of control inflation...
spiralling rents, house prices, homelessness, waiting lists for gp's and hospitals, creeking infrastructure generally...
with ever increasing power prices, inflation, and possibly interest rates...
what a climate in which to hold an election!
Glad Ive migrated.
Name one thing that’s better in Australia after 10,2 million net immigrants since 2000.
Access to medical? Access to affordable housing? Quality housing? Water security? The environment? Skills shortages sorted? Easier commutes? More individual space for recreation? Cleaner air? More animals? Better service from either government or corporations? Less government debt? Less personal debt? Lower mortgages? Healthier economy? Better quality of life for everyone? Higher per capita GDP?
Anything?
Don’t you dare say restaurants….we already had millions of foreign born Australians treating us to their exotic tastes and cultures.
I even read on here the other day that we needed to have mass immigration to shore up our defence force……What?!?!?
10,2 million immigrants and defence force enrolments are smaller than they were when we started. But now we’ve potentially got hundreds of thousands of any potential enemy’s ex-citizens living amongst us and we better pray they love being Australian.
Lets just throw this here again for some perspective.
A decent bump might have been justified after Covid maybe eve one higher than then mid 00's, but nobody can justify as spike like this, no matter if it's done by LNP or Labor, it shouldnt be defended it's just extreme and reckless, and to think its happening when we already have housing issues.
Supafreak wrote:Glad Ive migrated.
Geez with the picture these blokes are painting, think I'll move back to Indo.....
Might have to try out to become an influencer!!!
andy-mac wrote:Supafreak wrote:Glad Ive migrated.
Geez with the picture these blokes are painting, think I'll move back to Indo.....
Might have to try out to become an influencer!!!
Hahaha … do it andy ….. fuck it’s funny watching 1/2 dozen girls spending their days filming and photographing each other in a variety of poses. The place next door has an endless turnover of these supposed influencers and it’s entertaining watching while I’m having a feed . Geez they spend hours doing it and love an audience .
Supafreak wrote:andy-mac wrote:Supafreak wrote:Glad Ive migrated.
Geez with the picture these blokes are painting, think I'll move back to Indo.....
Might have to try out to become an influencer!!!
Hahaha … do it andy ….. fuck it’s funny watching 1/2 dozen girls spending their days filming and photographing each other in a variety of poses. The place next door has an endless turnover of these supposed influencers and it’s entertaining watching while I’m having a feed . Geez they spend hours doing it and love an audience .
It's classic ey.. narcacissm gone mad!
Were you on Bukit?
Wish they just stuck to Cangpoo!
I love indo, but lets be real many of the problems there are even bigger, the development and growth pushed by the fast growing population is out of control, and not just Bali or tourist areas, in my wife's home town in Java, where only years ago it was rise paddies and tranquil villages, its now horrible urban sprawl, its real sad to see happen.
Plus we are also looking at things from a lucky western perspective, its affordable because we have dollars, but if you were born into an everyday Indo household life would not be so rosey or easy.
We must the worst place on earth. What a horrible country to live in? Everything is falling apart.
andy-mac wrote:Supafreak wrote:andy-mac wrote:Supafreak wrote:Glad Ive migrated.
Geez with the picture these blokes are painting, think I'll move back to Indo.....
Might have to try out to become an influencer!!!
Hahaha … do it andy ….. fuck it’s funny watching 1/2 dozen girls spending their days filming and photographing each other in a variety of poses. The place next door has an endless turnover of these supposed influencers and it’s entertaining watching while I’m having a feed . Geez they spend hours doing it and love an audience .
It's classic ey.. narcacissm gone mad!
Were you on Bukit?
Wish they just stuck to Cangpoo!
Sure you meant Lembongan...
This pisses me off more!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/25/australia-aukus-funding-uk...
andy-mac wrote:Supafreak wrote:andy-mac wrote:Supafreak wrote:Glad Ive migrated.
Geez with the picture these blokes are painting, think I'll move back to Indo.....
Might have to try out to become an influencer!!!
Hahaha … do it andy ….. fuck it’s funny watching 1/2 dozen girls spending their days filming and photographing each other in a variety of poses. The place next door has an endless turnover of these supposed influencers and it’s entertaining watching while I’m having a feed . Geez they spend hours doing it and love an audience .
It's classic ey.. narcacissm gone mad!
Were you on Bukit?
Wish they just stuck to Cangpoo!
Nah andy , on Lembongan , next door is a french resort , $250-$500 USD a night, once about 10 years ago the whole resort was booked out by Russians but thankfully they haven’t returned and seem to stick to Bali. Lembongan is going through a mini boom at the moment, next 10 years I predict will see big big money moving in .
Supafreak wrote:andy-mac wrote:Supafreak wrote:andy-mac wrote:Supafreak wrote:Glad Ive migrated.
Geez with the picture these blokes are painting, think I'll move back to Indo.....
Might have to try out to become an influencer!!!
Hahaha … do it andy ….. fuck it’s funny watching 1/2 dozen girls spending their days filming and photographing each other in a variety of poses. The place next door has an endless turnover of these supposed influencers and it’s entertaining watching while I’m having a feed . Geez they spend hours doing it and love an audience .
It's classic ey.. narcacissm gone mad!
Were you on Bukit?
Wish they just stuck to Cangpoo!Nah andy , on Lembongan , next door is a french resort , $250-$500 USD a night, once about 10 years ago the whole resort was booked out by Russians but thankfully they haven’t returned and seem to stick to Bali. Lembongan is going through a mini boom at the moment, next 10 years I predict will see big big money moving in .
Yeah Bali changing too quickly ey!!
Even Sanur looks like it's going to be done over. New shopping centre and grand Bali hospital...
flollo MONDAY, 25 MAR 2024 at 8:15PM
“We must the worst place on earth. What a horrible country to live in? Everything is falling apart.“
You don’t think it’s a bit immature to try and use facetiousness to diminish the problems facing many people ?
I guess your kids aren’t depressed and dejected and living in a car at Casino cause their bar job doesn’t cover rent , food and bills? Not like some I know.
Crazy that someone who would have you believe they vote for Labor doesn’t even empathise with the young ( and not young) working class.
Good to see Blowin' back and firing on all cylinders, not going to disagree with him lest I end up on the wrong end of one of those fuselages of fire myself, that used to always end badly for all concerned, and think I probably share a lot of his sentiments regarding Tony "take it too easy" Albanese.
Also agree with @andy mac totally and not just about old mate Richard Clapton and propping up the UK sub industry.
Roll it all back and the rot really started stinking with Howard and Costello. Yep, a fkn war criminal, yep, squandered the resources boom and set up the future we now live in. Both sides have done nothing but make it all worse ever since. Been over these things so many times that record is broken. We could have been the greatest country on Earth by now, we could be paying everyone a dividend on our resources instead of where that money ends up now, they are in fact the common heritage of every Australian, not just the wealthiest, not just the multinationals that pay little or no tax. Other countries have done it. We could have looked after the aging, the disabled, the people now living in cars and tents. Free University, real Medicare, Dental care, no Australian living in poverty like Hawkie promised could have been our reality. Decent infrastructure, money for public schools, hospitals, quality not quantity migration and on and on.
Alas.
For example. Three families now worth north of $150B, Rinehart, Forrest and Palmer, from iron ore extracted from WA, a State with a $30B deficit, that charges a pissy 7.5% royalty. Gina's new rare earth mine just got a near $1B taxpayer handout, no equity for Australia, just loans and grants. A handout from the taxpayer to make our richest even richer. A woman who won't even share her wealth with her own children.
The Gas industry is no better. Howard gave our gas away to China for nothing. We pay more for it than they do. Now we are giving billions to the Poms and the Yanks for subs to protect us from the threat of China. Gillard and Anna Bligh did the same with Queensland's gas. We have enough resourced gas here already it should be free for many, at cost for the rest and still plenty to sell overseas for profit. But no, we pay through the nose and the industry wants more, not for us, more to sell overseas. We get told about "shortages" domestically.
This post is going to be long enough but you could write a book on this shit, some have.
In the 60's Donald Horne wrote "The Lucky Country" where he said this famous paragraph:
"Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people's ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise"
Horne was pointing out that while other less resource rich industrialised countries created wealth through innovation and technology, we relied on our resources and immigration.
Of course the jingoists an political classes just ignored his real intent, which was an indictment on our leadership, and just focused on and cherry picked the "lucky country" bit.
They still do.
Horne was pissed off with that, " "I have had to sit through the most appalling rubbish as successive generations misapplied this phrase" he said.. So in 1976 he wrote "Death of a Lucky Country" to reaffirm his point. He was largely ignored again. In 2016 Ian Lowe wrote another sequel "The Lucky Country?Reinventing Australia" which basically said that since Horne's original work, nothing much had changed. Eight years later, he is still right.
So back to migration, and andy mac and Blowin/SJL's posts.
Andy mac is right, it is not all down to Albo, but his two year old government has made decisions that didn't help, they made it worse, and again, as Horne said nearly fifty years ago, our second rate unimaginative, incurious leadership has been taken by surprise. And the fault lies in second rate decisions made by both sides.
Ergo.
"Due to border closures during the pandemic, Australia had an extremely low level of net migration in the period from September 2020-21.
However, the rebound in migration within one year was clearly much greater than had been expected by officials in Canberra in preparing the 2022-23 federal budget statement, which was published last year.
The biggest reason for the higher number of migrant arrivals over migrant departures since 2021 is changes in the movements of international students and working holiday makers.
.... from September 2019-21, the number of students and working holiday makers in Australia fell by 421,000 due to the pandemic. But this number rebounded by 368,000 from September 2021 to February 2023.
This means that, in the most recent year, large numbers of students and working holiday makers arrived, but very few left. The speed of the increase in these arrivals has been much greater than policy makers had envisaged.
Many temporary residents would also normally have been expected to leave Australia by September 2022, but they did not do so.
This includes many people on bridging visas, which reached a record number of 369,000 in September 2022. A bridging visa is provided to people who are in Australia awaiting the outcome of another visa application.
This number included a huge backlog of applications for permanent skilled visas and many people (50,000 or more) who arrived by air on tourist visas and then applied for asylum in Australia. Almost all these asylum applications are rejected, but few have been deported.
Also, during the pandemic, the Morrison government extended eligibility for a temporary employment visa (visa subclass 408) to people in Australia whose temporary visas were due to expire. This enabled many people to remain in Australia when, otherwise, they would have left.
Finally, there has also been a longer-term increase in the number of people on graduate visas due to a policy change in 2011, as well as other recent changes made by the Albanese government
These data tell us that the recent increase in net-overseas migration has been due to policy changes that enabled people to remain in Australia rather than policy changes that enabled people to arrive.
This continued in February of this year with the Albanese government allocating extra resources to help clear the backlog of people on bridging visas. This has caused a significant decrease in the numbers of people on bridging visas, many of whom have been granted permanent residence.
The very unusual movements during the pandemic have produced a temporary surge in net migration, which we can expect to last for two or three years. After this, net migration should return to pre-pandemic levels as the number of migrant departures ticks upwards again.
The impacts of this temporary surge in net migration on the labour force and housing are complex and cannot be interpreted in the simplistic terms now evident in much of the media.
The high level of net migration is largely due to people remaining in Australia instead of leaving. Almost all of these people were already working in Australia and were already housed.
Furthermore, students are often housed in student accommodation or live in extremely crowded circumstances, while working holiday makers often live in backpacker hostels.
But there is no denying the rental housing market in Australia is under considerable pressure due in large measure to the conversion of long-term rentals to short-term. Migration adds to this pressure."
https://theconversation.com/whats-behind-the-recent-surge-in-australias-...
Here is what the Minister for Home Affairs says they are doing about it.
"This Saturday 23 March, the Government will deliver on key commitments made in the Migration Strategy and key recommendations of the Migration Review. This follows a raft of action last year to close off pandemic-era concessions introduced by the former Government, including unrestricted working hours for international students and the Pandemic Event visa.
English language requirements for student and graduate visas will be increased to improve the quality of students’ education experience and to reduce potential workplace exploitation. Australia is a proud multicultural, multilingual country, but the Migration Review found “student English language requirements may not set up students to succeed”. English language requirements for student visas will be increased from IELTS 5.5 to 6.0 and for graduate visas from IELTS 6.0 to 6.5.
The Government’s powers under Section 97 of the ESOS Act also come into force, giving the Government the ability to suspend high risk education providers from recruiting international students. In coming weeks, the highest risk providers – otherwise known as ghost colleges and visa factories - will be issued with warning notices. They’ll be given 6 months to get their act together, if not, they’ll be suspended from recruiting international students.
A new Genuine Student Test will be introduced to further crack down on international students looking to come to Australia primarily to work, rather than study. This test will ask students to answer questions about their study intentions and their economic circumstances, with a declaration to be made that they understand what it means to be a genuine student.
To avoid visitor visas being used as a way to subvert offshore student visa integrity checks, the Government will be increasing the imposition of “no further stay” conditions on visitor visas. If a prospective student is offshore and looking to come to Australia as a student, then they should apply for a student visa offshore."
https://minister.homeaffairs.gov.au/ClareONeil/Pages/albanese-government...
So, too little too late, our second rate leadership, surprised again, and those scam student visas are getting sorted apparently. Promises made to build housing that won't be met, because people we didn't really need, got to stay, and together with some other second rate decision making and policy, drove up rents and house prices and demand. And more still arriving, the taxpayer still sponsoring the housing ponzi, untouchable now, locked in. Franking credits, untouchable, locked in, cartels, duopolies, untouchable, locked in, and now AUKUS, same again. The divide of rich and poor widening daily, more billionaires, the middle class shrinking. Cost of living crisis, housing crisis and in the midst of the biggest crisis of all, climate, we're still logging more old growth forests, Tasmania's Liberals just went to an election with a promise to log more, still approving fossil fuel mines, still fracking and blasting for more gas, and on and on it goes.
Still a lucky country led by second rate leadership that keeps surprising itself at it's own stupidity.
The fair go Australia that became the fuck you Australia.
It's so depressing.
At least Bells is going to be good tomorrow.
Good swell, good winds.
Fuck the eye doctors advice.
I'm going surfing.
indo-dreaming wrote:I love indo, but lets be real many of the problems there are even bigger, the development and growth pushed by the fast growing population is out of control, and not just Bali or tourist areas, in my wife's home town in Java, where only years ago it was rise paddies and tranquil villages, its now horrible urban sprawl, its real sad to see happen.
Plus we are also looking at things from a lucky western perspective, its affordable because we have dollars, but if you were born into an everyday Indo household life would not be so rosey or easy.
@indo , I’ve been visiting Lembongan since 1980 and have seen the changes from tourism. In most cases the families are far far better off than those earlier dark days where food was scarce and disease ran rampant without any support . Many children didn’t make it to 10 years old and now they have education and decent health care . The families that lost out here , were the few that sold and not leased their land . People here are fairly well off by indo standards and I do understand what you’re saying, I’m just pointing out that what once was an area shunned by Indonesians in that penida was a penal colony, ceninngan was the black magic island and lembongan was where some of the royal family from klungkung & their guards were extradited too . It’s going to be interesting watching how this new government performs .
Slackjawedyokel wrote:flollo MONDAY, 25 MAR 2024 at 8:15PM
“We must the worst place on earth. What a horrible country to live in? Everything is falling apart.“You don’t think it’s a bit immature to try and use facetiousness to diminish the problems facing many people ?
I guess your kids aren’t depressed and dejected and living in a car at Casino cause their bar job doesn’t cover rent , food and bills? Not like some I know.
Crazy that someone who would have you believe they vote for Labor doesn’t even empathise with the young ( and not young) working class.
Please... I’ve got plenty of sympathy but I also witnessed a lot of success, especially amongst the younger generations. We’ve got issues in Australia but regardless, we are a great country to live in. These posts make it sound like we’re some shithole. That’s simply not true, not even close.
adam12 wrote:Good to see Blowin' back and firing on all cylinders, not going to disagree with him lest I end up on the wrong end of one of those fuselages of fire myself, that used to always end badly for all concerned, and think I probably share a lot of his sentiments regarding Tony "take it too easy" Albanese.
Also agree with @andy mac totally and not just about old mate Richard Clapton and propping up the UK sub industry.
Roll it all back and the rot really started stinking with Howard and Costello. Yep, a fkn war criminal, yep, squandered the resources boom and set up the future we now live in. Both sides have done nothing but make it all worse ever since. Been over these things so many times that record is broken. We could have been the greatest country on Earth by now, we could be paying everyone a dividend on our resources instead of where that money ends up now, they are in fact the common heritage of every Australian, not just the wealthiest, not just the multinationals that pay little or no tax. Other countries have done it. We could have looked after the aging, the disabled, the people now living in cars and tents. Free University, real Medicare, Dental care, no Australian living in poverty like Hawkie promised could have been our reality. Decent infrastructure, money for public schools, hospitals, quality not quantity migration and on and on.
Alas.
For example. Three families now worth north of $150B, Rinehart, Forrest and Palmer, from iron ore extracted from WA, a State with a $30B deficit, that charges a pissy 7.5% royalty. Gina's new rare earth mine just got a near $1B taxpayer handout, no equity for Australia, just loans and grants. A handout from the taxpayer to make our richest even richer. A woman who won't even share her wealth with her own children.
The Gas industry is no better. Howard gave our gas away to China for nothing. We pay more for it than they do. Now we are giving billions to the Poms and the Yanks for subs to protect us from the threat of China. Gillard and Anna Bligh did the same with Queensland's gas. We have enough resourced gas here already it should be free for many, at cost for the rest and still plenty to sell overseas for profit. But no, we pay through the nose and the industry wants more, not for us, more to sell overseas. We get told about "shortages" domestically.
This post is going to be long enough but you could write a book on this shit, some have.In the 60's Donald Horne wrote "The Lucky Country" where he said this famous paragraph:
"Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people's ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise"
Horne was pointing out that while other less resource rich industrialised countries created wealth through innovation and technology, we relied on our resources and immigration.
Of course the jingoists an political classes just ignored his real intent, which was an indictment on our leadership, and just focused on and cherry picked the "lucky country" bit.
They still do.
Horne was pissed off with that, " "I have had to sit through the most appalling rubbish as successive generations misapplied this phrase" he said.. So in 1976 he wrote "Death of a Lucky Country" to reaffirm his point. He was largely ignored again. In 2016 Ian Lowe wrote another sequel "The Lucky Country?Reinventing Australia" which basically said that since Horne's original work, nothing much had changed. Eight years later, he is still right.
So back to migration, and andy mac and Blowin/SJL's posts.
Andy mac is right, it is not all down to Albo, but his two year old government has made decisions that didn't help, they made it worse, and again, as Horne said nearly fifty years ago, our second rate unimaginative, incurious leadership has been taken by surprise. And the fault lies in second rate decisions made by both sides.
Ergo.
"Due to border closures during the pandemic, Australia had an extremely low level of net migration in the period from September 2020-21.
However, the rebound in migration within one year was clearly much greater than had been expected by officials in Canberra in preparing the 2022-23 federal budget statement, which was published last year.
The biggest reason for the higher number of migrant arrivals over migrant departures since 2021 is changes in the movements of international students and working holiday makers.
.... from September 2019-21, the number of students and working holiday makers in Australia fell by 421,000 due to the pandemic. But this number rebounded by 368,000 from September 2021 to February 2023.
This means that, in the most recent year, large numbers of students and working holiday makers arrived, but very few left. The speed of the increase in these arrivals has been much greater than policy makers had envisaged.
Many temporary residents would also normally have been expected to leave Australia by September 2022, but they did not do so.
This includes many people on bridging visas, which reached a record number of 369,000 in September 2022. A bridging visa is provided to people who are in Australia awaiting the outcome of another visa application.
This number included a huge backlog of applications for permanent skilled visas and many people (50,000 or more) who arrived by air on tourist visas and then applied for asylum in Australia. Almost all these asylum applications are rejected, but few have been deported.Also, during the pandemic, the Morrison government extended eligibility for a temporary employment visa (visa subclass 408) to people in Australia whose temporary visas were due to expire. This enabled many people to remain in Australia when, otherwise, they would have left.
Finally, there has also been a longer-term increase in the number of people on graduate visas due to a policy change in 2011, as well as other recent changes made by the Albanese government
These data tell us that the recent increase in net-overseas migration has been due to policy changes that enabled people to remain in Australia rather than policy changes that enabled people to arrive.
This continued in February of this year with the Albanese government allocating extra resources to help clear the backlog of people on bridging visas. This has caused a significant decrease in the numbers of people on bridging visas, many of whom have been granted permanent residence.The very unusual movements during the pandemic have produced a temporary surge in net migration, which we can expect to last for two or three years. After this, net migration should return to pre-pandemic levels as the number of migrant departures ticks upwards again.
The impacts of this temporary surge in net migration on the labour force and housing are complex and cannot be interpreted in the simplistic terms now evident in much of the media.The high level of net migration is largely due to people remaining in Australia instead of leaving. Almost all of these people were already working in Australia and were already housed.
Furthermore, students are often housed in student accommodation or live in extremely crowded circumstances, while working holiday makers often live in backpacker hostels.
But there is no denying the rental housing market in Australia is under considerable pressure due in large measure to the conversion of long-term rentals to short-term. Migration adds to this pressure."
https://theconversation.com/whats-behind-the-recent-surge-in-australias-...
Here is what the Minister for Home Affairs says they are doing about it.
"This Saturday 23 March, the Government will deliver on key commitments made in the Migration Strategy and key recommendations of the Migration Review. This follows a raft of action last year to close off pandemic-era concessions introduced by the former Government, including unrestricted working hours for international students and the Pandemic Event visa.English language requirements for student and graduate visas will be increased to improve the quality of students’ education experience and to reduce potential workplace exploitation. Australia is a proud multicultural, multilingual country, but the Migration Review found “student English language requirements may not set up students to succeed”. English language requirements for student visas will be increased from IELTS 5.5 to 6.0 and for graduate visas from IELTS 6.0 to 6.5.
The Government’s powers under Section 97 of the ESOS Act also come into force, giving the Government the ability to suspend high risk education providers from recruiting international students. In coming weeks, the highest risk providers – otherwise known as ghost colleges and visa factories - will be issued with warning notices. They’ll be given 6 months to get their act together, if not, they’ll be suspended from recruiting international students.
A new Genuine Student Test will be introduced to further crack down on international students looking to come to Australia primarily to work, rather than study. This test will ask students to answer questions about their study intentions and their economic circumstances, with a declaration to be made that they understand what it means to be a genuine student.
To avoid visitor visas being used as a way to subvert offshore student visa integrity checks, the Government will be increasing the imposition of “no further stay” conditions on visitor visas. If a prospective student is offshore and looking to come to Australia as a student, then they should apply for a student visa offshore."
https://minister.homeaffairs.gov.au/ClareONeil/Pages/albanese-government...So, too little too late, our second rate leadership, surprised again, and those scam student visas are getting sorted apparently. Promises made to build housing that won't be met, because people we didn't really need, got to stay, and together with some other second rate decision making and policy, drove up rents and house prices and demand. And more still arriving, the taxpayer still sponsoring the housing ponzi, untouchable now, locked in. Franking credits, untouchable, locked in, cartels, duopolies, untouchable, locked in, and now AUKUS, same again. The divide of rich and poor widening daily, more billionaires, the middle class shrinking. Cost of living crisis, housing crisis and in the midst of the biggest crisis of all, climate, we're still logging more old growth forests, Tasmania's Liberals just went to an election with a promise to log more, still approving fossil fuel mines, still fracking and blasting for more gas, and on and on it goes.
Still a lucky country led by second rate leadership that keeps surprising itself at it's own stupidity.
The fair go Australia that became the fuck you Australia.
It's so depressing.At least Bells is going to be good tomorrow.
Good swell, good winds.
Fuck the eye doctors advice.
I'm going surfing.
Thanks for taking the time to write that.
Agree.....
the point is flollo...
we're on the road to shithole
complete with tent encampments
and as adam12 points out, it doesn't need to be this way...
we're getting played at every angle
we are now a country of winners and losers, where once, we were one of the most egalitarian countries on the planet
as a balinese person once said to me, the thing he liked most about his time in australia, was that there was not much gap between the garbage collector and the doctor...
this is no longer the case
we now have our very own 'working poor'
you are clearly on the right side of the equation, and all power and good luck to you... but we really really do not need to accept families living in cars and tents in australia...
a sad aspect of it all is the callousness with which austalians have accepted this as the new norm... hawkey, keating, and even howard would never have seen this as ok on their watch...
the rate of change is the problem
and the fact, neither big party has had endorsement from the people for them to impose this new reality on the people... it's all been done in backroom hush hush deals, with a complicit media that has shut down any discussion from your aversge joe that could clearly and easily see the developing decay yokel describes
and now, it's impossible to turn it around
No, not impossible but I agree with the sentiment. As Adam correctly pointed out, the student visas are ridiculously abused. Actually, everyone knew they were abused for years and now this minister is supposedly doing something about it. Like it’s some new problem? Just walk through Melbourne CBD and there are ‘schools’, ‘universities’ and ‘agents’ all over the place. Anyone walking the cities like normal citizens do would pick up on this as an issue.
Same with our universities which would go broke without international students. Once you add dozens of useless, unemployable degrees you get a joke of a system. Their overheads are ridiculous. I say let them go broke.
You put some controls in this space and you will solve at least 1/2 of migration issues. It’s not that hard to do, just limit work capabilities for international students, no courses under a bachelor or postgrad degree and no bridging visa options after the graduation. This will deter a lot of people from showing interest in the first place as their true intention is to stay and work. Studying is just a gimmick to get in.
yep
its a scam
all of it...
if labor had any balls (or ethics and credibility), they would've called it out when libs were in power...
but they didn't
they only had 10 years...
'it's ideological'
haha
laughable comng from lucy...
(comments didn't go well)
💯. #tradies If Australians want more homes built, more migrant workers are needed https://t.co/RdiFbmlNfF
— Lucy Turnbull AO (@LucyTurnbull_AO) March 25, 2024
If the "answer" is "supply" then we need to create a two tiered housing/construction boom. Cheap crown or rezoned land for builders with inviting tax incentives for them to build houses that aren't available to property investors or owners, just renters, first home owners and the tent dwellers, means tested. Rent or buy underwritten by the government, not the banks, administered by housing departments, not the real estate industry. Caps on rents and repayments, based on incomes not the markets. Sold on or re rented to similar occupiers, not some dude who's 32 and owns 100 properties, or some superfund on a tax break. Lease for long terms or life or buy and sell at centrally controlled valuations, not market determined. Not getting the boot every year and having to go through the nightmare of relocation again and again. Public housing but not really public housing, you can get equity in it, you can move ahead, you can pay your rent or mortgage and still have money to feed yourself and your kids. You can have a dog, or paint your interior. You can lose your job, or your health or your partner and not have to think about topping yourself or moving under a bridge somewhere in your car, if you can even afford one.
Let the overpriced ponzi market take it's own course, keep their ridiculous valuations, ridiculous rents, even their ridiculous tax investor incentives. Can't have them losing out on where they are now, fair enough, can't touch their tax breaks fair enough. Leave that market to that market.
Bypass them and start again, like the post war. A new housing market for the ones pushed out by the current hot mess, new values, new growth, no one loses.
A house that costs 1/4 of a million, that rents for $250 a week, that a family can live in. Every city, every region. Units too.
We can invest what will end up being $500B or more on submarines we won't see for years, if ever.
We have a GDP of US$1.5 trillion plus. 800 of our biggest companies pay no tax. Rio Tinto, FMG, CBA, Westpac, NAB paid no tax in 2021-22. Miners and banks. Woolworths made $58B in 2021 and paid $460M tax, Coles made $44B and paid $382M. IKEA pays no tax, offshores it's profits. Murdoch, Shell, Exxon, Woodside all pay little or no tax. The list of these companies is virtually endless.
The ALP says it's moving on multinational and corporate tax breaks. Well fkn move. If they don't want to invest then someone else will, if there is a dollar to be made, someone else will step in. I don't buy the argument that you can't fuck with obscene profits, that that is what you have to put up with to get investment.
Bullshit.
Now before the likes of gsco or @Pop come at me, I'm not a communist, or a socialist. Yes, it's all legal, in the Tax Act, and I did Tax1 and 2 at Law School, I know (or did) the Tax Act, probably better than most here, including the two of you.
The point is this.
We are not a poor country, we are not a shithole, I agree with Flollo on that, plenty of us are doing fine. But plenty are not. They are living in tents and cars or motels or couches, without an inheritance or family backing or a very lucrative job. They have to cue in the hundreds for overpriced rental properties where shonky agents carry out dutch auctions. They have to bid at auction against cashed up investors sponsored by the taxpayer. they are young people who are looking at a million dollar mortgage to buy a fixer upper in shitsville, that's if they can even qualify for the loan. Many can't. 31% are renters in Australia, 120, 000 plus homeless, rising by the day.
Who the fuck does the Federal and State governments govern for? Them or just the wealthy? Them or the arms industries of our allies? Them or just the corporations and lobbyists?
Why is it too hard to help them yet so easy to help the rich, the corporates, the banks, the lobby groups?
If the taxpayer can sponsor companies that make billions and don't pay tax, can sponsor property investors to accumulate wealth, can sponsor the American and UK submarine industry for something that doesn't even exist yet, why can't it sponsor those people too. Real people, not a legal entity, not a fkn submarine ghost. Australians, the working class, the poor, the disabled, the broken, the middle class going backwards.
My idea may be unrealistic, naive, unworkable. I haven't spent time on it, just a thought that occurred to me watching Q&A tonight.
But I don't see anyone in a position to change things coming up with any. Smarter people than me. People who can do things like that. powerful people with the mechanisms of change in their hands.
If it's a crisis, and it is, well where is the action? Where is the war footing? The crisis summit, the ideas factory, the solutions?
Where is our political class?
Property investing most of them. Writing off their losses with negative gearing. Charging the taxpayer $300 a day for the property they bought in Canberra, for going to grand finals, for their pilot licences, for Taylor Swift tickets and so on. Meeting with lobbyists with the cheque book out asking do you need more. Showboating on social media. Going to parties at Raheen and watching Katy Perry with the Pratts.
Fuck Albo and the ALP, dropping in the polls? No wonder.
Fuck the fucken LNP.
Fuck the lot of them.
Tits on bulls.
I'm going to bed.
Such good work above but things can turn around quickly and WE are , The Lucky country .
China helped us grow our Iron Ore Industry with Funding to build and buying the stuff .
It could ALL be done again , the Stuff is still there .
The Japanese and Chinese Funded our Gas Projects 2 .
The Mighty North West Self and Gladstone .
ALL those buyers of gas , PAY for the fn Stuff , as per fn Long Term Off Take agreements .
I am sick of people saying they fn Take OUR gas for FREE .
We can , if we have the Political will , do that ALL again , 2 ffs !
Immigration could be reduced in a fn DAY .
In Covid , we Stopped it !
Our Government HAS 2 make some decisive decisions now .
Yes , some will hurt .
Change is not easy , be honest and make some fn Calls Albo .
Otherwise , U will be Albo Lazy Bones , a terrible look .
Latest Guardian poll shows coalition in 2 party preferred vote.
Albo might be a one term PM and we will be back with LNP.
If ya reckon they will help the homeless and other doing it tough, well as in the castle, tell em they're dreaming....
What a shit show.
Then you get this crap when we have all these multi nationals paying minimal or no tax... Fark poor fella my country.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/mar/26/traumatising-expe...
Breaking: Cognitive dissonance epidemic in Canberra.
"Cognitive dissonance is the discomfort a person feels when their behavior does not align with their values or beliefs. Cognitive dissonance is a psychological phenomenon that occurs when a person holds two contradictory beliefs at the same time."
Must bring in workers to build more homes to solve the housing crisis.
Must build more homes to house workers we brought in to solve the housing crisis and so bring in yet more workers to solve the housing crisis..
Must bring in more workers to help build the energy system to achieve net zero target or the world will end.
Must also continually scale up energy production to cope with rapidly growing population and so must bring in more workers to help achieve net zero.
Cognitive dissonance - recommended vaccination for pollies:
- a multi property investment portfolio
- social distancing from the "unvaccinated" - those without portfolios or with any symptoms of concern about the housing crisis or an understanding of energy policy.
Reckon Adam writes better but same sentiment here...
https://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2024/mar/26/blaming-joh...
Anyway...
Andy Mac
Your nuclear fixation as a distractions is on fire .
Who is this woman ?
When Albo is Blowin so much money by doing nothing , this talk by whoever , is JUST a distraction ,
Subs are cool and Australia has ordered the Best .
WHEN will any Politician , Pauline Hansen excluded , start debating what REALLY matters ?
Jobs , housing , cheap electricity and trust in government ?
Last year the Min wage was increased 8.6% , Albo's big push atm , is 2 do. some Lobbying ffs .
Give them more , what an easy job , he has .
Do Nothing Albo , it's in his DNA , it seems .
Let others , make an important decision .
He is just the PM , what can he fn do ffs !
I read above about how we have got ourselves in a Pickle .
That due to a combination of Governments , Immigration and Energy Policy are failing and it's a just too hard to get things changed .
Bull Shit !!!
Everyone said The Boats couldn't be Stopped ffs .
Stop the Flood now , give Gas the Go now .
Then work out what 2 do next and Get a PLAN , tell us what it is and fn just DO It !
Time for someone with some Guts 2 Stand Up with Pauline !
Distraction???
Mmmm ok. Paying UK to upgrade their facilities for some submarines that will never eventuate..
Reckon that money could be better spent on Australians and on defence that is actually suitable for defending Australia, not being a USA lacky.
But carry on USA USA go Trump!
AM
Yes it is a distraction from Domestic Decisions , that need 2 B made right now .
I have not mentioned Trump much ( I think at all ), on this thread .
The Sub decision was debated .
You are crying over spilt milk , mate .
Are U suggesting WE change our minds , AGAIN ???
I don't think Australia should take on China or Indonesia , By our fn selves , no way .
The Kiwi's will help , BUT , the Indians and Japanese , are a bit far away .
How about U give Albo, a domestic Idea ???
I think I am trying .
I reckon a Gas Project , with Off Take Agreements sign by the Future Fund ( so it's OUR gas to Buy ) , is a good start .
U just love Voldy's Nuclear Puff .
How about U defend Albo , he sure needs it , as The Polls are looking REAL bad atm .
Help him , AM :)
We are NOT the USA and don't want 2B !
We are Australians and should know , how 2 look after ourselves .
Stuff Trump ( has he ever been here ? ) , he has enough , at home , 2 worry about .
Pop Down wrote:AM
Yes it is a distraction from Domestic Decisions , that need 2 B made right now .
I have not mentioned Trump much ( I think at all ), on this thread .
The Sub decision was debated .
You are crying over spilt milk , mate .
Are U suggesting WE change our minds , AGAIN ???
I don't think Australia should take on China or Indonesia , By our fn selves , no way .
The Kiwi's will help , BUT , the Indians and Japanese , are a bit far away .
How about U give Albo, a domestic Idea ???
I think I am trying .
I reckon a Gas Project , with Off Take Agreements sign by the Future Fund ( so it's OUR gas to Buy ) , is a good start .
U just love Voldy's Nuclear Puff .
How about U defend Albo , he sure needs it , as The Polls are looking REAL bad atm .
Help him , AM :)
Clever distraction set up by Scomo!
Albo should have cancelled it straight away. Trump will renege on deal if/ when he wins.
You seriously think China and Indonesia want to invade us?
Do a few subs that will not be ready if at all until at least 2040 will help if they did?
Ok carry on......
A whole episode devoted to housing and homelessness on Q&A last night. A panel of political caricatures representing their tribes. one bemused sensible expert wondering why the fuk he agreed to go on. Was there what, maybe 1 or 2 points when immigration, spoken in hushed terms as "demand" was actually raised only to be swatted away with urgency by everyone. what a depressing croc of shit and bunch of talentless spineless leaders we have representing us.
@pop down, “ Stop the Flood now , give Gas the Go now”
This one sentence shows you don’t have too many clues. More gas….. how about more return for our gas, a domestic supply and not have our price hitched to export rates. No need for more, just better management of what we already extract.
It seems you are cheering for all the shit things pop. Think of all the jobs and housing we just sent to Rolls Royce and US ship yards. It’s criminal.
soggy
What ???
We are using diesel as WE don't have the Gas .
The Huge Exports from the North West Self and Gladstone were CONTRACTED , years ago and the contracts are , and should be , honoured .
Our Word is our Bond .
Australia , forgot 2 Plan 4 OUR own Energy Future .
We turned off some coal but had NO 24/7 , replacement .
So most of our gas goes Off Shore ( to the Long term planners like the Japanese ) and WE don't have ANY here , atm .
U can't STEAL the Gas !!!
Immigration , all I know is 700k is a disaster , STOP the fn Flood , now !
We can't house all the new students ffs !
Melbourne , is FULL !
Ok , if that's Shit , I guess I am Cheering for it .
Austal in WA , build great ships still , we can do more .
Fuck Rolls Royce , who fn wants a Rolls in Australia ?
Shit , I don't care , I think its right .
@Pop
I'll let you check the royalties Qatar make compared to Australia over this scam that is ripping off all of Australia.
""During 2020 Australia was the seventh largest gas producer in the world and in 2021 Australia's LNG exports reached a record high of 81.2 million tonnes (Mt) (slightly ahead of Qatar) making Australia the world's largest LNG exporter.""
https://www.ga.gov.au/digital-publication/aecr2022/gas#:~:text=During%20....
So Pop, future Australians get fucked over because some cockwomble like your self didn’t know how to broker a deal. Fuck that tear em up and start again. If your foundations are shot your house falls over. Pop….. the house is falling over. And you’d have to be dillusional not to see AUKUS is a military industry money grab that we’ll be paying for forever. Go tell your grandkids how good that’s going to be.
A whole episode devoted to housing and homelessness on Q&A last night.....
"maybe 1 or 2 points when immigration, spoken in hushed terms as "demand" was actually raised only to be swatted away with urgency by everyone"That is what gets me the most in debate these days in certain media - some important topics are just subliminally understood to be "no go areas" with careful guest selection and quick redirections or pre-prepared clever put downs by the host or others ready to push the elephant back behind the curtain.
Nuance, complexity, unintended consequences and anything that might appear to be outside the virtuosity bubble does not get fully discussed. The covid period was just the worst for this as it was almost 24 x 7. It leads to bad policy and outcomes.
I can't watch Q&A - just the worst for this.
Might as well put this up in the politics subforum, to spare the front page. It's 18 months away or so, but here we go.
This is how Dutton wins:
https://www.afr.com/politics/enter-the-liberal-party-working-class-heroe...