The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
28th Nov 2023 (Today) Voice Mop up...ANU Detailed Analysis
https://csrm.cass.anu.edu.au/research/publications/detailed-analysis-202...
https://csrm.cass.anu.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/2023/11/Detailed_a...
Yes 52.9% City > 43.2% Chix > 25 yrs (58.6%) Educated Poor 2x more voted Yes (alp) 7% more
Yes 29.6% Bush > 36.5% Blokes 75 yrs+ (24.2%) Left school Rich 2x less Vote Yes [L] 7% less
Overseas English Speaking most likely voted Yes (vs) Other Languages (No Difference)
ANU / AEC refuse to share Indigenous Turnout...ANU usually drop these with discretion > Not for Reffo!
Firstly add that disadvantaged Booths had higher informal Votes...(ANU fail to see the obvious!)
Check : Pro Pollie seats have Big Teams (Disadvantaged) Indies or Remote don't get VIP assist.
Each demographic inherently respect their perfectly pecked branch on each Bigoted Family Tree.
Totally amazing to run a ruler for age demographic voting like Xmas Trees...Change is little by little!
Less educated Elders put in more time to command more debate over more positive carefree upstarts.
60% said they knew enough > 20.5% wanted more info > 19.4% Wanted a lot more info.
Online News = 60% all age Groups / Gender [Yeah /Nah]
Social Media - Young Chix 40-60% [Yes]
Telly - Old Men 55-75% [No]
Radio - Old Men 40-55% [No]
Newspapers - Old Men 35-55% [No]
Voluntary Voter Turnout was a surprising swing factor!
Would you Vote in this Reffo if Voting wasn't Compulsory...this would've evened up the Vote.
[Yes] 88.4% (vs) [No] 73.1% or massive 15% less committed to Indigenous outcome...Whateva!
All Groups Voluntary Vote 63.6% Likely 15.3% Not Likely 10.1% No Vote 3.6% (See State Elections)
There is a lot more study on Parties / Leaders (Too much) + Hypothetical Wot if...
Crew can sort thru that...
Bonus tbb Data investigates Low Indigenous Vote Turnout being censored.
Oz Democracy is largest act of mass racism banning 40% of Aboriginal Voter Participation.
Qld AEC Indigenous Enrollment (2017 -70%) > (2023-95.3% of 60% Indigenous pop)
This took some doing to best example a freely accessible constant large Indigenous Voter Base!
This data is not on a loop and needs to be sourced independently by differing formats over time.
Which is also hit or miss on "Booth Detail" Not sure if tbb could venture into pre www.
For those on this groove...mid '90's is about the limit..try to limit research to that or put in the hours!
Reason : tbb needed to square Indigenous Data alongside Oz /State Data (re: below table!)
Just saying ...tbb has standards in bringing a fair deal to all across the board...
Non voter is again Happy to share neutral research with all Voters equally...this is exclusive to swellnet!
Palm Island "Booth" ticks most boxes for accessibility & constant high Indigenous Pop!
Palm Island enrolled 1091/2446 Pop (40% under 19yrs) 7% non indigenous 1.5% o/s
2000's Palm Island Turn Out Data
2001-776 >2003-586 > 2007-635 > 2010-566 > 2013-663 > 2016-498 > 2019-493 > 2022-493
Referendum 2023-432 (39.6% is Official lowest Voter Turn Out this Century)
[Pause] Ya see why it's worth all that effort....Crew can observe frontline Indigenous Democracy!
29.6% of Palm Island Population Voted = Democracy is dying fast amongst First Nation.
Yes 323 (vs) No 107 ( 73.4% Voted Yes nearer to Albo's 80% Claim) But record low Turn Out ...Shh!
Sure! swellnet exclusive for those that still give a damn...not advertising such...your eyes only!
tbb's companion Voting research shares Oz Democracy died in mid - late 1990's
Keating's Era of High Court Rights (vs) Howard's Secret Executive Lock Down Powers
Electorate fast realized their Vote was worth less each day as Govts abuse power by overrides,
Peak Elections Mid '90's ... 97%
Declining > 2023
Fed Elections 90%
Referendum 90% > 85% costly cbd booth closures > Longer Queues + Remote Costs + Grey Army
State Elections 85%
Plebiscite 80%
Big Oz Councils 80% Vic + > NSW > Qld (Fading faster than Feds)
By Elections 75%-80% (AEC is worried about this constant run of large drop offs!)
Regional / Councils 40% NZ > 30% SA > WA > NT (Often No / Uncontested Divisions) Have a Go!
Victoria First Peoples Assembly Election 10% (Crew can check this...a real shocker for Voice!)
Voice 10%-30% For maximum Oz wide Indigenous Democratic engagement
Crew can plainly see why tbb ran those checks...to better gauge comparable fall in democracy.
All see First Nation no longer trust Democracy 10-30% Turn outs (Fading Fastest)
tbb compared Qld Palm Island to NT council Divisions for exact same drop off rate...Now 30%
Aussies are also slipping fast from (max) 90% Fed vote > 80% State > 30% for regional Councils
[Pause] ANU Study on Democracy
Good......March 2008=23.4% > Jan 2023=14.2% > Reffo =9.5%
Ok :.........March 2008=58% > Jan 2023=62.8% > Reffo =56.4%
Not Ok ..March 2008=14.6% > Jan 2023=19.8% > Reffo=27%
Shit........ March 2008 =4.0% > Jan 2023=3.1% > Reffo=7.2%
Reads 18.6% > 22.9% > (Right Now 34.2% are not stoked with Oz Democracy) Massive!
Add to this...
We can only lock in best case 30% support for any Regional indigenous Aussie Voice Voting format.
But those are white folk city stats...(Regional Voice) For 30% ( middle 36%) against 34%
That's closer to 2023 reality
All can see & know that Aussie Democracy further enforces racist rule over the Mob...not good!
Whatever the Voice be...it can't be democratic...how can it be?
That's why Oz is pushin' shit up hill in this negotiation...we're gonna have to come to an agreement!
Call it wot ya like...no more ballot box Diplomacy...that era is now 25 years in the rear...it's dead!
[factcheck] Fast Dying 2000's Democratic process least inspires or commands First Nation respect.
Experts hide the fact that 'most Indigenous' refuse to engage or participate in 2000's Oz democracy!
Ok to believe otherwise for reasons of hope...meeting on equal terms on equal ground...we can dream!
TBB - gee , I can't even be bothered to digest this useless information and your Clinton Like analysis
on this issue .
People are continuing to loose TRUST in governments !!!
Look at Ireland atm .
Not democracy !
There is a BIG difference .
Australia is NOT being taken over by Right Wing Racists .
We are NOT dumb !
Palm Island being an indicator for Australia on a Voice ??? Really !
That's like saying Canberra is !
All , most do on this thread , is complain and argue .
NOT 1 , constructive idea to move this issue forward , I have seen .
U all seen to have forgotten about the URGENT problem and seem to want to do nothing !
ps On my recent trip I met a lovely couple from Israel in the surf .
In the carpark @ Tallows , they mentioned they felt it best to keep their heritage quiet !
I was shocked and suggested they meet some REAL Australians .
Visit Melbourne , I suggested .
The ones that are not Fair Weather friends .
People should treat people , as people . So simple imho .
I would like to apologise to ALL FNP on this thread for saying U have forgotten about this issue !
Very insensitive and written in a grumpy way .
A sincere apology .
I will pop back down .
udo
I read the article .
So much of what happened a long time ago , when looked through today's lens looks bad .
As the article said , the Whites had trouble with native names , the FNP had No records , the Whites had records , names were given for the White record .
Not much thought was given to choosing some names , as is obvious .
Australians still hate filling in forms imo .
The article would have highlighted most of the poorest choices .
I am sure , there were some beautiful names as well !
Bing seams a nice person .
We have enough bad history to move on from .
Highlighting this , shows me the ABC is not looking forward !
PS - hello base6 :)
U are right but there are always more skeletons in closets .
When have enough been found for us to get the point ?
When have enough been shown to children ?
When will we bury the skeletons and move forward ?
I am going now ! In fact , I'm GONE !
I agree Pop (glad your trip went well!), but moving forward doesn't mean locking out an ongoing understanding of dynamic and complex history and denying the lived-experience of fellow travellers.
I like how we are referred to as 'kartiya/gudia', 'gubba' etc. by aboriginal people if we mess in their affairs - same as 'haole' or 'bule' (from cultures people seem to respect more than our native culture), even if you're 3rd gen white newcomer.. terms used chummily if you're a nice person, as a slight if you're a wanker. white people have always had such words for native people, with much more weight and distain attached. (amazes me the fraser island comments, @stunet Thirroul response was perfect... 'fraser island' of all gudia-names was worthy of reflection and reconsideration. international visitors certainly think so!)
names and dates are so random and often inappropriate, and people get so hung up on them - you'd have to have pretty small world-view to give a shit, eh? check out who Mt Everest is named after if you want random ; )
for what it's worth @Pop, my opinion of relegating Cook statues to the scrapyard is that it is immensely short-sighted, but labels like 'discovered Australia' make no sense whatsoever. Maybe just a change to 'played a major role in the introduction of what-would-become Australia to the wider world' and let a little moss and ivy grow over it.
But some of our names for places are about as relevant as everything in America being called "the Donald Xxx" or "the Trump Xxx", if he were one of the first egomaniacs to set up shop there:
"Lachlan Macquarie, the Scottish governor of the colony in the beginning of the nineteenth century, was nearly successful at attempting to name every object in the continent after himself. As a result, there is the Macquarie Harbour, Macquarie Island, Macquarie Marsh, Macquarie River, Macquarie Fields, Macquarie Pass, Macquarie’s Chair, Macquarie’s Point and a Macquarie town. Macquarie is also a bank, university, the national dictionary, a shopping centre, an ice rink, and countless roads, streets and avenues. And that doesn’t even include all the places named after his first name Lachlan…" (Bryson).
I agree again 6 .
Cook and all of England may have thought he discovered Australia .
Someone did , but well before him .
Naming rights ???
Byron Bay named all their Streets after Poets ( probably all English and male ) which I like .
Billinudgel , up the road , is native . It means King Parrot .
I like the name Melbourne , it's my home , as is Australia .
Driving over the Murray , I noticed ( finally ) that the Bridge is called Spirit of Progress .
I liked that name .
One name made me laugh . Bald Knob Rd or hill .
Thought someone was really taking the piss out of someone when naming that place .
Enough's Macquarie's .
Open to many names being changed to a native name .
Uluru for example was a wonderful change .
"The rock was called Uluru a long time before Europeans arrived in Australia. The word is a proper noun from the Pitjantjatjara language and doesn’t have an English translation."
I would love to change the name of Canberra !!!
Make our Capital a native name !
Really .
History , on both sides , is important .
Hate vandals pulling down old statues !!!
Some people love being Judge and Jury .
So selfish imho .
ps Canberra was actually a derived from the word Ngambri. "When Canberra was first settled by Joshua John Moore in 1821, Joshua Moore named his property Kamberri after the local people, because he couldn't get his tongue around the Ng sound, as many people can't," he said.
I will learn to get my tongue around the Ng sound .
nice, @Pop, obviously people don't like changing their address on forms, or learning new words.. built up areas won't change in a hurry, and there are many, many worthy western names that should be lauded..
maybe we could start with 2 of WA's tallest pimples, and see if people think Mt Bruce & Mt Nameless are better than the local names ; ) ..and then take it from there.
"you take people through country, right?"
"yeh, just to give them a bit more of an understanding, and inside information, and make them feel a bit complete about where they are, and how they should conduct themselves"
That's all any surfer wants from blow-ins really, right?
Base 6 - Both places SHOULD be changed imho .
One of my BF's is a Bruce and he won't mind .
I remember Lake Disappointment ( full of Potash in the brine ) in WA changed it's name .
Quite easy for me to change Native Landmarks , I think .
Very cool imo .
Mt Kosciusko , not sure , the Polish guy was cool imo . But maybe ?
I'd buy into the idea of Kosciusko keeping its name too.. aboriginal people probs too sensible to bother with it before the first poma fired up. I'd consider the plenty-places up to Jindabyne a different matter for the Ngunn/Ngar/Walg peoples.
Also, I have no idea if a place's height is of as much importance to the people who have loved this place for so long, as much as spaces of nurturing and abundance?
Did you get wet on your trip? Or just have a good craic with mates @Pop? Ever find the jetski/tow peeps?
Woolumbin is another one. Never bothered me. Great name. Cloud catcher. Mt Warning.
Powerful energy so i think both names suit, of which i still use both...which i think is ok.
6:) Would think a mountain in the middle of the GDR , not much of a landmark .
I really think we CAN make significant changes to ANY native land mark !!!
We should , if possible .
It should be a part of the real Reconciliation but can start now .
Everything should be ON the table !!!
I did get wet , 5 times :)
A start , but need to get fit !
Shit , surfing is like football .
Can't be half ready and really enjoy it .
Floating in the ocean chatting is great fun .
My new board does work ( Guy Omerod ? ( an instructor @ the Byron Surf School ) rode it @ Clarks lol ( I did his job of pushing in the learners )) . It felt heavy ( 3&6/8 ?) .
Got one or two where I felt I could surf and the board really can work , so happy.
So nice to surf Tallows with others ( one day , no one was out and NO way was I going out there ) haha . The foreigners had no idea of the Old reputation of this spot .
My local mate says there is a cold current that runs next to the Julian Rocks that attracts the BIG suits .
He has paddled a surf ski around them 100 times , probably , over the last 40 plus years . He took me out , bloody wobbly ) and we went 300 meters ( murky water 6-7 meters deep ) out and I said - THIS is FN far enough , please .
To steady the craft when stopped , U have to hang your legs over the side , which I refused to do .
He had the steering wheel and catching a Runner ( northerly ) in , was a breeze .
We caught three runners .
On the second , a little double and then triple up , I thought I heard him yell jump , so I did .
His Mrs told me it was the first time in 15 years since he had fallen off a ski .
Told the crowd as we walked up the beach , carrying a 10 meter ? craft ( only 28kg) , the big sharks were gone haha .
I enjoyed Byron for the very first time ( had fights playing football v Byron ) , not as busy as pre covid .
Sooo many Blow Ins though since covid .
FNP and Second Nation people are nearly all pushed out .
Surprised I didn't see Opra there .
Lots of lovely young foreigners working in hospitality .
Running the restaurant's , hotels and cafe's .
Then went to Tocumwal with 24 old footy mates for our annual three day Golf " We Do It For Kicks" w/e .
Played shit , so much fun and loved the town of Toc .
Then went to the Chiro haha .
Keep surfing , base6 .
I am going 2 :)
Great Byron recap @popdown.
Will keeo me from rushing back there.
Fk Julian rocks. That coast is sharky enogh without paddling out into the super highway!!
southernraw wrote:Woolumbin is another one. Never bothered me. Great name. Cloud catcher. Mt Warning.
Powerful energy so i think both names suit, of which i still use both...which i think is ok.
totally. how normal is it to be sensitive and rational while collaboratively creating our shared reality? we are very luck here, we still have that option : )
Yes indeed @basesix. Love your work. One of my favourite commenters on SN. Cheers!
Mt Warning , I love that mountain .
It's tip gets the mainlands first ray of light .
Woolumbin is my choice !
Was told growing up , the native name meant Stiff Dick , really .
I don't think U are meant to climb in now .
I definitely wouldn't climb a stiff anything .
It would be a great view .
haha. Agreed @popdown. Best avoided with that kinda name!
Nah it's a beautiful place.
There was a night, November, 2017, that a fella and his missus went to the top and camped in the middle of one of the most hardcore electrical storms i've ever witnessed. He got zapped and sadly died. Can't imagine how his missus felt up there alone with him.. I think that might have had something to do with the reason people were stopped from climbing such a powerful spiritual place.
That same night i was on top of the platform next to the Ballina watertower overlooking Ballina with a dear friend, watching the craziest lightshow ive ever seen. Never seen lightning like that. Felt like it was literally cracking over the top of our heads. Can't believe we didn't get zapped either!!
No surprises here for the IPA/Murdoch sponsored grifter
https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/jacinta-price-rejected-52-a...
GuySmiley wrote:No surprises here for the IPA/Murdoch sponsored grifter
https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/jacinta-price-rejected-52-a...
Has she returned from the UK yet ? She certainly got as far away from regional NT as she could after the referendum, doubt she will be visiting any remote communities anytime soon .
Supafreak wrote:GuySmiley wrote:No surprises here for the IPA/Murdoch sponsored grifter
https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/jacinta-price-rejected-52-a...
Has she returned from the UK yet ? She certainly got as far away from regional NT as she could after the referendum, doubt she will be visiting any remote communities anytime soon .
Reckon any remote community she has the stupidity to attempt visiting in the future will give the grifter a special get the fuck off our country ceremony
WA government so far this year have scrapped the Cultural Heritage laws that it brought in to protect something like the Jukan cave catastrophe happening again.
Now they've rejigged their environmental approvals process.
A clear sign they care sweet fuck all about indigenous people, or the environment and have only dollar signs in thieir eyes.
And they call this a democracy.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/other/how-the-wa-government-plans-to-fix...
southernraw wrote:WA government so far this year have scrapped the Cultural Heritage laws that it brought in to protect something like the Jukan cave catastrophe happening again.
Now they've rejigged their environmental approvals process.
A clear sign they care sweet fuck all about indigenous people, or the environment and have only dollar signs in thieir eyes.
And they call this a democracy.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/other/how-the-wa-government-plans-to-fix...
@southernraw. Good stuff mate. It’s not changed in forty years since when I last lived there. To any current locals, don’t try to convince me it’s improved, because it hasn’t. AW
Hey AF, it's improved, we've got the golden arches now or golden bum cause it's a piss and shit stop whilst on a roadie
seaslug wrote:Hey AF, it's improved, we've got the golden arches now or golden bum cause it's a piss and shit stop whilst on a roadie
Seaslug. Howdy. Tongue firmly planted in cheek I’d say. Would you like fries or flies with that ? AW
AW
Not much real improvement , has happened anywhere , perhaps ?
Over the last 40 years , so many important numbers, have gotten , and continue to get , worse ( festering ) .
In Melbourne , I have noticed , a big change on our views on our FNP .
On a lot of other views as well !!!
We have Festivals , Music , Sports , Arts , Welcoming Ceremonies celebrating our sisters and brothers creativity , commitment , talent and culture .
We are happy to change names to FNP names and have said Sorry and meant it etc
None of this has changed anything , much , for FNP .
In Melbourne , we want this to Change urgently imho .
This requires a Plan ( a lot of work ) and the commitment to carry it out .
That requires ALL Australia ( not Political ) to get behind it imho .
AlfredWallace wrote:southernraw wrote:WA government so far this year have scrapped the Cultural Heritage laws that it brought in to protect something like the Jukan cave catastrophe happening again.
Now they've rejigged their environmental approvals process.
A clear sign they care sweet fuck all about indigenous people, or the environment and have only dollar signs in thieir eyes.
And they call this a democracy.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/other/how-the-wa-government-plans-to-fix...@southernraw. Good stuff mate. It’s not changed in forty years since when I last lived there. To any current locals, don’t try to convince me it’s improved, because it hasn’t. AW
Nope. Lots of growth and job opportunities coming up though, which is awesome!! Just like seaslugs mention of the piss stop/shit/food. Awesome too! hehe.
Lotta gold over here both physically and metaphorically....unless you're on the wrong side of the 'establishment'.
Pop Down wrote:AW
Not much real improvement , has happened anywhere , perhaps ?
Over the last 40 years , so many important numbers, have gotten , and continue to get , worse ( festering ) .
In Melbourne , I have noticed , a big change on our views on our FNP .
On a lot of other views as well !!!
We have Festivals , Music , Sports , Arts , Welcoming Ceremonies celebrating our sisters and brothers creativity , commitment , talent and culture .
We are happy to change names to FNP names and have said Sorry and meant it etc
None of this has changed anything , much , for FNP .
In Melbourne , we want this to Change urgently imho .
This requires a Plan ( a lot of work ) and the commitment to carry it out .
That requires ALL Australia ( not Political ) to get behind it imho .
@Pop Down. Can’t disagree with any of that.
You and I and others are singing from the same hymn book (I’m not religious, but you know what I mean).
I agree, we live in the same state, I think we are progressive, especially in comparison to W.A who I think treat FNP as impediments to jobs and work for mostly non FNP who are only working there for the big cash grab whilst dancing on beds that are still burning. I won’t change my view until I notice change. I visit that state periodically for (plants/birds).
A heap of us surfers/mates are going back to a town in WA in 2024 where we all lived in 1984. It will be interesting to read the tea leaves on what’s actually happening. Good to chat. AW.
I tell you one thing that's changed, ITS FUCKING CROWDED AND FULL OF CLOWNS.
Let me know the town, I would have surfed there in 84 :) and it would be flies with that
seaslug wrote:I tell you one thing that's changed, ITS FUCKING CROWDED AND FULL OF CLOWNS.
Let me know the town, I would have surfed there in 84 :) and it would be flies with that
Seaslug. Love ya passion. Flies for me also, high protein content, unlike fries cooked in a Palm oil blend with very a poor ratio of actual potato to fat. Grease for the arteries and veins. Now, Where’s the Mortein ? AW
Hello AW
I can be a bit pro Melbourne , as barrack for the Dees ( I hope u are not a Pie ) .
I have more friends , on the East Coast .
Only guy I really know , out West , died 20 years ago ( never met him but Collect his art ) haha .
Out West , building things , mining things , fishing for things , surfing etc - makes their World go round .
It pays ALL the bills .
The States Budget , relies on this stuff .
All these affect FNP , both good and bad .
In Melbourne , we are NOT reliant , for our livelihood on these industries .
We don't feel Slowed down , perhaps ???
But here , many people do believe Land Rights , Environmental rights and rules , debate about who gets Mining Royalties , when we Need Welcoming Ceremonies , what we can't climb and what we should rename etc are ALL issues that should be sorted out , agreed on , as they ARE slowing everyone down .
All my friends agree , one one thing .
Let's Fix the sore that is festering and do something about it Urgently .
Through out some burley on this Thread ages ago , about appointing a Super Committee of 9 .
Give them 2 years to come up with ultimate The Plan , unlimited budget ( $450m) .
Then go , united to a ref , and get the YES , nearly everyone wants .
Shake hands , pass the Custodial baton stuff etc , then move on , as a United Nation .
Crickets .
To get some interest , I suggested Onion Boy ( TA ) to be Chairman .
As now a director of Fox , he carries even more Clout !
lol Got Noisy .
No takers .
I am hoping , after the ref and the issue being debated , U notice some change when U go West ( WA - Plants and surf and especially birds ( that fly slow ( easier to see )) interest me , to .
I think , I heard recently , that we can fly direct from Melb to the South West Coast ( Bussletown ? Is that a place ? ) of WA .
Went there to watch us defend the America's Cup ( surfed MR , Rottnest ) and took the whole family to Freo ( loved it but no surf ) .
Howard Taylor , his old stuff lol .
Popdown wrote "To get some interest , I suggested Onion Boy ( TA ) to be Chairman ."
This has to be a joke surely.
Are you trying to kick indigenous people while they're down ffs?
No SR .
Don't do that sort of thing , never have .
U read my previous comments ( were noisy then ) on this , and KNEW I was serious then .
U told me off , THEN to . I think ( no joke ) .
I am STILL serious on the issue ,
Just willing to pop the idea up for AW's info ( ffs ) .
SR - It was the ONLY idea on the thread to move forward .
I asked EVERYONE to suggest another Chairperson .
Not ONE person responded with an alternative or even thought the idea of a Committee ( I bet U like them ) ( FFS ) worth discussing .
Very slack imho .
Pop Down wrote:No SR .
Don't do that sort of thing , never have .
U read my previous comments ( were noisy then ) on this , and KNEW I was serious then .
U told me off , THEN to . I think ( no joke ) .
I am STILL serious on the issue ,
Just willing to pop the idea up for AW's info ( ffs ) .
SR - It was the ONLY idea on the thread to move forward .
I asked EVERYONE to suggest another Chairperson .
Not ONE person responded with an alternative or even thought the idea of a Committee ( I bet U like them ) ( FFS ) worth discussing .
Very slack imho .
Pop Down. Yes I am a Pie amidst a heap of Pussies here in the SC hinterland .
I love your passion and want/willingness to write and express your thoughts, that’s what a forum is all about, it’s great you’re involved and it’s my pleasure to be engaging with you. (You can feel a ‘but’ coming sooner or later).
Nothing wrong with being Pro anything, especially Melbourne, some great think tankers in that city, well represented here by the likes of Blackers, GuySmiley, Goofyfoot and others, the aforementioned can generally keep you on your toes and are always respectful of others and their comments, alas, they’ll smack you across the face with the remnant Jewfish carcass express posted down from Lennox by Freeride76 if and when needed.
Zen who I regard as a fair referee and moderator (he doesn’t like that title) but he is good at yanking anyone, including me , back into line, will chip in regularly and tell you to lift your game and in some instances request you apologise to an individual or entity.
I’ve been away birding/plants for a month and returned to see and meet you as a new poster, I like your style and your head and heart is definitely in the right place.
BUT, mentioning Tony Abbott as some positive connection to be engaged with anything aboriginal would be like wiping vinegar (acetic acid) or hydrochloric acid on a marble (metamorphosed limestone) bench top, the fizzing would be endless until the bench just disappears in front of your very own eyes.
Southernraw, myself and a lot of our other great posters are simply exhausted from a year long keyboard engagement right up until voting day with the Referendum for a Voice. The outcome was not what we hoped for, we will learn and get the grey matter back to work at some stage.
I’m sorry I’ve not got a suggestion for some chairperson at present, overtime I will.
Currently wading in my own sweat with Covid, great welcome home gift.
I failed to mention earlier, I’ve got an Abbott Proof fence around my place, once they get in, you cannot keep them out. All a bit of fun.AW
Pop Down wrote:No SR .
Don't do that sort of thing , never have .
U read my previous comments ( were noisy then ) on this , and KNEW I was serious then .
U told me off , THEN to . I think ( no joke ) .
I am STILL serious on the issue ,
Just willing to pop the idea up for AW's info ( ffs ) .
SR - It was the ONLY idea on the thread to move forward .
I asked EVERYONE to suggest another Chairperson .
Not ONE person responded with an alternative or even thought the idea of a Committee ( I bet U like them ) ( FFS ) worth discussing .
Very slack imho .
hmmm....
https://indigenousx.com.au/recounting-abbotts-contributions-to-indigenou...
southernraw wrote:Pop Down wrote:No SR .
Don't do that sort of thing , never have .
U read my previous comments ( were noisy then ) on this , and KNEW I was serious then .
U told me off , THEN to . I think ( no joke ) .
I am STILL serious on the issue ,
Just willing to pop the idea up for AW's info ( ffs ) .
SR - It was the ONLY idea on the thread to move forward .
I asked EVERYONE to suggest another Chairperson .
Not ONE person responded with an alternative or even thought the idea of a Committee ( I bet U like them ) ( FFS ) worth discussing .
Very slack imho .
hmmm....
https://indigenousx.com.au/recounting-abbotts-contributions-to-indigenou...
Southernraw. I’ve seen that filth and disgust previously, thanks for reminding me again of how much of a cunt Abbott was/is.
I’m sure he’d never do that to any of the religious follies he’s involved with or secretly and indirectly funded. Great work.AW
AW
Thank U for some very helpful information .
I DO , way too often , say what I really believe , at an inappropriate time and forum AND in a badly written way .
I tried to give reasonable responses on why , I really thought , he could do the WORK and sort out this mess ( Like the Boats ) .
Desperate to DO something ( so sick of thinking ) .
Will pop down with Tony being Chairperson .
Thank U .
ps
Sat next to "FN Collingwood supports " lol @ The Big Freeze game .
A rabble , of course , but had a lovely time .
Sat next to another Old Pop , who had his whole fn Clan with him .
Said to him , FN Collingwood is REALLY pissing me off atm !
He asked , Why .
I said " I really like your coach and am starting to like your fn team , and I don't like that " .
Pop Down wrote:AW
Thank U for some very helpful information .
I DO , way too often , say what I really believe , at an inappropriate time and forum AND in a badly written way .
I tried to give reasonable responses on why , I really thought , he could do the WORK and sort out this mess ( Like the Boats ) .
Desperate to DO something ( so sick of thinking ) .
Will pop down with Tony being Chairperson .
Thank U .
ps
Sat next to "FN Collingwood supports " lol @ The Big Freeze game .
A rabble , of course , but had a lovely time .
Sat next to another Old Pop , who had his whole fn Clan with him .
Said to him , FN Collingwood is REALLY pissing me off atm !
He asked , Why .
I said " I really like your coach and am starting to like your fn team , and I don't like that " .
PopDown. Thanks for a great mature reply. I giggled immediately at your last line, especially the reference to Craig McCrae, his demeanour and resultant effort with his boys/players. It really does highlight its equally more than just a game of physicality and brutality, it’s a total mental game and he oiled that machine to perfection. You were not the only football follower wishing they had a guy like him at the helm, I know plenty of supporters who hated the Pies in the past , but openly admitted we’d become their second favourite team.
You, others and myself in the past, with reference to commenting/posting, the ‘need for speed’ to get out what you want to say, immediate thoughts sometimes overrides sensibility, the speed at which your brains coming up with great ideas but the aged fingers we share and tap away at the keyboard are never usually synchronised, sometimes leaves us with a dirty plate.
I’ve quickly learnt to reread and think about what I’ve written and how it may affect an individual or others.
‘Don’t change a thing, for me’ (INXS)
In reality, in daily conversations, I can talk underwater with a mouth full of peanuts, so, you’ll rarely see me write short succinct replies on any matter, let alone the biological world, which is ‘my world’.
Great to engage with you. Go Pies. AW.
lol - U seem to know me BUT .
" openly admitted we’d become their second favourite team. "
That wasn't ME !!!
I can see why a few sensible SN Gents , are happy to have u "home" .
As I am such an stupid Old Bloke , as nothing seems to be done ( that I can see ) and that I want this issue sorted ( not wanting shit for my daughters to sort out ) , I will re post some ideas I floated but "sunk without trace " .
I want Australia , to make a GIFT , to the current FNP ( a Future Fund plus whatever ( within reason ie no nonFNP's Australian homes eg Kirrabilli etc ) ) for the shit their ancestors went through . The Gift will not have just words . It needs to have actions .
Australians would LOVE to be the first country EVER to give this type of GIFT !
We love being first , imo !
FNP have work to do .
We need to hear all their grievances as ONE voice .
They need to decide what is scared and what is not eg can be climbed .
They need to help us know what grievances are not worth listening to .
I don't believe Whales tell people that they are worried about Woodside drilling .
They , perhaps , can decide , WHO gets the different parts of the gift .
I am not sure ?
A lot of good hard work needs to be , and will be , done !
We are Australians .
BUT lol ( do more research Pop ) .
Monkeyboy ,on the housing thread pointed out there already IS , some FNP Fund already being managed by the Future Fund .
edit
I want it MUCH bigger , can't remember but I think I gave a figure ( 10-20B ? ) .
Pop Down wrote:As I am such an stupid Old Bloke , as nothing seems to be done ( that I can see ) and that I want this issue sorted ( not wanting shit for my daughters to sort out ) , I will re post some ideas I floated but "sunk without trace " .
I want Australia , to make a GIFT , to the current FNP ( a Future Fund plus whatever ( within reason ie no nonFNP's Australian homes eg Kirrabilli etc ) ) for the shit their ancestors went through . The Gift will not have just words . It needs to have actions .
Australians would LOVE to be the first country EVER to give this type of GIFT !
We love being first , imo !FNP have work to do .
We need to hear all their grievances as ONE voice .
They need to decide what is scared and what is not eg can be climbed .
They need to help us know what grievances are not worth listening to .
I don't believe Whales tell people that they are worried about Woodside drilling .
They , perhaps , can decide , WHO gets the different parts of the gift .
I am not sure ?A lot of good hard work needs to be , and will be , done !
We are Australians .
BUT lol ( do more research Pop ) .
Monkeyboy ,on the housing thread pointed out there already IS , some FNP Fund already being managed by the Future Fund .
edit
I want it MUCH bigger , can't remember but I think I gave a figure ( 10-20B ? ) .
@PopDown.
Admirable persistence for the want of a better life/world for FNP. I want it all for them, always have always will, after all, it’s their place, we’ve fucked it across all facets, destruction of the landscape as a whole ( very evident on my recent road trip), I’ve often wondered how they feel seeing the land/waterways they so carefully manipulated/cultivated and cared for, to be simply torn apart with farming techniques suited to other parts of the globe, followed by gross scale extractive industries pursuits destroying anything that’s in the way of ‘progress’ and to not have the decency to check or to even acknowledge the presence or occupation of people (in this instance FNP) to the point that they were simply ‘moved on’.
Previously forced ways to breakdown their social/family systems were destructive and to assume we wanted them to behave and live like us was just comical and ludicrous.
I think you and I are going to get on very well.
I, like you, have a child/children, my case a 22 year old son, you have daughters, not sure if you’ve noticed or observed this generation, I have, they are so compassionate about all ethnicities and FNP, my son wants to know way more, so do his friends, the more they read the more they are disgusted at our very short Anglo occupational history and the deeply gouging effects we’ve had on Aboriginal people in all areas of their lives.
Such a blight on our society.
As previously mentioned, I’m a first time COVID recipient, I’m wallowing in a bed/swimming pool at present and can hardly breathe.
Sometime next week we can kick off and add to your already good start and preamble you’ve just delivered, your honour. Good stuff. AW
AW
My two daughter's 22 and 19 ( and ALL their friends ) are very Noticeable and Impossible not to Observe !
This Generation ( hope they aren't called M's ) are So Cool imho .
My girls ( custodial arrangement ie as I don't own them ( shit , pop alert ) ) , think very differently to me ( and stopped listening to me when both turned 7 ) and more deeply than I did , at their age .
We went to dinner the night of the ref .
They told me , in depth , why they voted Yes .
I was extremely proud of them .
I explained why I went No .
They understood .
Take base 6's advice and eat healthily to smash that bug .
Some Jewish medicine , perhaps .
Chicken Soup .
Bon Chance !
Happy 2024 .
Pop Down wrote:AW
My two daughter's 22 and 19 ( and ALL their friends ) are very Noticeable and Impossible not to Observe !
This Generation ( hope they aren't called M's ) are So Cool imho .
My girls ( custodial arrangement ie as I don't own them ( shit , pop alert ) ) , think very differently to me ( and stopped listening to me when both turned 7 ) and more deeply than I did , at their age .
We went to dinner the night of the ref .
They told me , in depth , why they voted Yes .
I was extremely proud of them .
I explained why I went No .
They understood .Take base 6's advice and eat healthily to smash that bug .
Some Jewish medicine , perhaps .
Chicken Soup .
Bon Chance !
Happy 2024 .
PopDown. Cheers fella. Your daughters sound wonderful. And I do understand why you voted No, my ex as of last week has for 30 years worked with FNP and she voted No along with the three large FNP groups she’s immersed in.
On the food front, Basesix is a fine fella, always got good food and nutrition recommendations.
I don’t ever each shit, you are what you eat.
To revisit a quote from one of the original Apple Mac founders, Steve Jobbs
“Food Is Your Medicine”, if you eat shit food, “Medicine Will Soon Become Your Food”. Salient advice, I’d say. AW
White Panther Punkz let their Music do the Talkin'
More Punk than you and The Ramones!
https://www.detroitartistsworkshop.com/the-killer-up/
https://www.discogs.com/artist/976837-UP-5
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/x-eDj18ug2sTK1OgDCBl3gcdgw0NfOUxzXEjov...
1970 White Panther Punkz wanna live Down Under as Aborigines...
Off the charts track should not compute nor exist on any possible level...
How the fuck does this kick arse Punk Rock Slab fly under our Oz Radar...Impossible!
Not Now! Not Today! No longer...not on our watch...let 'em outta of their cage to mop up our Voice.
The Up 'Rising' ....Just Like an Aborigine
https://theconcertdatabase.com/artists/the-up
truebluebasher wrote:White Panther Punkz let their Music do the Talkin'
Amazing find TBB.
Cheers, mate.
southernraw wrote:haha. Agreed @popdown. Best avoided with that kinda name!
Nah it's a beautiful place.
There was a night, November, 2017, that a fella and his missus went to the top and camped in the middle of one of the most hardcore electrical storms i've ever witnessed. He got zapped and sadly died. Can't imagine how his missus felt up there alone with him.. I think that might have had something to do with the reason people were stopped from climbing such a powerful spiritual place.
That same night i was on top of the platform next to the Ballina watertower overlooking Ballina with a dear friend, watching the craziest lightshow ive ever seen. Never seen lightning like that. Felt like it was literally cracking over the top of our heads. Can't believe we didn't get zapped either!!
Hey Southern.... you may enjoy a book titled "Shattered Air," by Bob Madgic
It is about a hiking crew in 1985 that climbed to the top of Half Dome in a winter storm. Half Dome is in Yosemite (dunno if you knew that) and is the highest point rising outta the valley. Bald, rock top, it gets lotsa lightening strikes. The rangers won't let ya climb any further in a storm anymore, i think, cuz of this event. They make ya turn around and descend. I got caught in a lightening storm just below where the cables begin, in 1991. The last 500ft or so at the summit, there are cables to grab onto so as not to fall off the face. The storm came sudden, and there was no time, so a ranger shows up and yells at me to shelter in place. I got under a smallish tree that was next to, and sheltered by, a much bigger pine. I figured the pine would take the brunt and leave the smaller tree alone. Lotsa strikes and wind and general fright. Crazy hour of my life, but, as nothing bad happened (I had to descend in a pouring rain, that was the worst of it), i recall it fondly.
Anyways, the book is well done, the story fascinating and instructive. If ya get hard up for a read......?
Edit: Summer storm. (i actually looked it up, lol. I usually don’t do that when reminiscing.)
A US perspective. The speaker notes that the modern gangster rap culture and the non stop message since the 60s that the world is stacked against African Americans has built up a "can't do" "no hope" culture. President LBJ, with good intentions, started the welfare train and cultural shift. A whole industry has built up around this and a culture of blame and excuse which Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a research fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institute has termed the Mediocrity Mafia that has infiltrated universities, corporations, and even lower education levels.
In contrast, black children of US servicemen growing up in Germany measured as per the general German population in IQ, school performance and other socio economic measures. They did not know they had "race" problems or difficult hurdles to jump their white friends did not. The "disadvantage industry" had not told them over and over... so they got on with life and did well.
One can only imagine how much damage the 24 x 7 referendum message of "no hope without the magical Voice", "you have got big problems", "the odds are against you", promoted by the FNP "leaders", the media and politicians to try to "win" the vote has done.
Thomas Sowell is his name such a wise man.
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28